4H and Fourteen on Aussie Geek Podcast #007 (part 1)

Let’s start off by noting how cool it is that we are featured for the first time on their episode 007! (Like James Bond…get it?) The title for this specific episode is called Armchair Economists.

The Aussie Geek Podcast was one I found about a month ago and gave it a listen. While its main focus is on technology/tech news/software, they did play a little music. I thought we might be an interesting fit as the Lizards From Afar use a fairly interesting technological approach to recording.
To top it off, the banter between the guys is a lot of fun.

So I decided that I would throw caution to the wind and ask the guys if they’d give us a spin. To my surprise, they said yes. Not only did they say yes, but they want to feature us on three podcasts in a row which will culminate with a live interview. Initially it was going to be with me, but I have convinced Chopper to take this one.

We’re also excited to be getting some play in Australia…and Canada. (Long story. Like our remote recording, these guys do a group show remotely!)

So hop over here to give it a listen:


Thanks guys!
Sir Pent

PS-additional posts will come when parts 2 & 3 are released

78 Responses to “4H and Fourteen on Aussie Geek Podcast #007 (part 1)”

  1. This is a long podcast…we come in at about 1hr30mins!
    I also love the fact that they do a Blooper segment at the end.
    These guys are cool…for such geeks.

  2. Yeah – Dave’s a great guy. I almost fell out of my chair in episode #006 … “The most venomous creature … IN THE WORLD!”

  3. They have a way of making (sorry Dave & Keith) some of the most uninteresting sh*t seem fun and funny to talk about.

  4. Hey, Gator, great introduction to the song! So cool to hear you on the “air” so to speak.

    They seem to have ultra-compressed the song, which makes it a little muddy, but oh well. Actually, make that a lot muddy.

    Now, I’m going to go for another beer.

  5. choppernewt Says:

    I still think that there’s some aspect of the way podcasts are done that is sort of degrading the sound quality of the songs, although I’m sure it’s not any conscious manipulation by the podcasters, and I think we’re more attuned to it as we are used to the songs sounding a certain way. I don’t think there was any conpression applied as we think of it, more likely some bitrate conversion required at some point that degrades the fidelity. But I noticed that also. Same thing happened first time Gabor played CB on EL.

    God bless em all, as long as someone is interested in playing us that’s all I can ask for.

    Dave sounds like a really cool guy. I can’t wait to talk with those guys. Of course, I’m going to throw you both under the bus, but that shouldn’t come as any surprise.

  6. Obviously I should be talking to them since we’d like to sound intelligent to our foreign audience.

  7. I’d just talk about my junk a lot.

  8. Damn! Did you see how many views there were today (thus far)!

  9. choppernewt Says:

    I tried to add some stat tracking from Google to the page, but I can’t do it. Fucking WP.

    Anyway, I had messed up the front page while doing it, but I think I fixed it. Specifically, I had to put the first guitar image back up.

    No more webpagin’ for me! Back to my calligraphy practice!

  10. Hey guys, just thought I’d pop over here from the Aussie Geek Podcast and give you props on your music. Great stuff. Looking forward to hearing more.

  11. choppernewt Says:

    Thanks Herne. Glad you’re liking it, we’re really pleased that Dave and Keith have included us – it’s a great show. Thanks for the compliment!

  12. Yeah, WP has too many restrictions. It looks better than most blogs and has no ads, however. We can only do better by buying and building our own website.

    I added a blog stat widget to the front page sidebar, but it only lists the number of hits we get. What else would we need, actually?

  13. This is just my opinion, but I still think we could organize the site in a way that would better direct the visitors.

    1) Front page should be the POSTS page. That way they get right to the meat, find out the latest news and see that they can comment on stories.

    2) Clear NAVIGATION menu:
    DOWNLOAD OUR MUSIC HERE (direct link to our reverbnation site)
    Band BIO (history)
    Members BIOs (we could each write our own)
    Albums & Music (with sub-stories on each)
    – How Old Is Your Sister (album description + track listing)
    – Kick The Habit (album description + track listing)
    – Tantric Pathways (album description + track listing)
    – Bloomington Democracy (album description + track listing)
    – 1991 concert (album description + track listing)
    – 1992 concert (album description + track listing)
    – Basement tapes (track listing)
    Resume/Podcasts (we could list off: podcast + date + song + comments)
    Media (random pics and junk and music link to reverbnation)
    Friends & Supporters (this would be the link to Gordon/Cuttlefish + reverbnation)
    Steely Dan Fake Facts (because it’s fun)

  14. Hey guys, thanks for the mention on your blog. Yes I agree that the first page should be the blog posts, but that is just me…

    Just like to address the sound quality issue. Yup your right we compress the shit out of it. I would hope that you notice it as it is about 1/10th the quality that you would accept for a recording. Which I would expect is around 290-320+kbs… or there abouts. The average song of about 3-4 minutes at that rate is about 4-6MB depending on the encoding used. As you mentioned our show is a bit of a time investment at 1 hour +… ahem… we try… so if we were to use the same bit rate the show would be pushing up round the 1GB mark… way too big.

    So the answer is to compress the audio into an mp3 which is the right mix of size for quality. That aint no easy task let me tell you. But being predominately a voice or speaking podcast makes it easier. But the drawback is that the music has that “muddy” quality.

    We combat the result with links to the original or downloads for it. The podcast gives a “taste” that is acceptable and we find that listeners go to the source and listen or download if they like it. As you can see some of our listeners have popped over and said hello.

    So I hope that helps explain the podcast mystery as far as sound quality goes and why it sounds the way it does.

    Otherwise it has been fascinating to read the comments about our show from a different perspective. Thanks we appreciate it. I am really looking forward to having a chat with the Gator and sharing a beer…

    Yes the blooper reel is gaining in popularity for some whacked out reason… see what happens when the co-host does the show for a few months…

    Cheers Guys!

  15. PS That story about the jellyfish, no joke seriously… I have the scars to prove it šŸ˜›

  16. Thanks for the info, Dave. It’s what I suspected, actually.

    Pent: I don’t disagree with a reorganization of the site. I’m not sure about going straight to the posts. That’s what we had first, of course, and I changed it because I figured lots of people really don’t care to read our blather, and would prefer to quickly find the music. The front page idea was to introduce us quickly and get people to the music. If they dig it and want to read our posts, they can find them easily enough. Why don’t you like that? Give me an argument I can assent to and I’ll make the change this evening.

    Also, the navigation menu can be straightened up, but it already does contain pretty much what you just listed. I’ll be happy to reorganize it as you say, however.

    We are a tad limited in what we can do since we’re relying on a set structure on WordPress. Once, long ago, I owned Dreamweaver and Fireworks and could, thus, create nice looking webpages from scratch, but no longer. Even if I still owned them, I’d be leery of doing a webpage since it takes a lot of time and involves complicated updating, etc. The blog is so much simpler and allows much more interaction.

  17. Hey, we have New Zealand and Sicily now, too!

    Now we only need Africa, the Orient (other than Japan), Russia, and Canada and our dream of worldwide domination will be reality!

  18. Other than:
    1) having the posts first is my personal preference
    2) our own statistics show that 95%+ visitors never venture past page 1
    3) I oversee a department that manages 3 large websites and have something of an informed, professional opinion

    What do Chopper and Gator think?

    – – – – – – – –

    We have a Canadian hit, don’t we?
    From what I have been able to find, there are not a lot of podcasts coming out of Africa. The few I could find were about politics and religion.
    I honestly hadn’t looked at Russia…

  19. You haven’t given me a convincing argument. “In my informed professional opinion we should have the posts page first.” Fine, but give me your informed professional reasons. Who cares if visitors never go past the first page? Why do they NEED to read our posts before they hear our music?

  20. I don’t care to argue it.
    You win.

  21. choppernewt Says:

    I’m convinced. Convinced that I need to murder the both of you.

  22. Why not? An argument is, perhaps, adversarial by nature, but not at all confrontational in a negative sense–I mean argument in the intellectual sense: give me your reasons clearly. I gave you my reasons for having the site as it is: I’m not convinced that the posts are the chief attraction of the site, which is merely to advertise us and point visitors to our music, in my opinion. I don’t want to turn visitors off by lots of text containing our arcane discussions, although anyone is free to contribute if they so desire. You say, however, that the posts should be first. I’m only asking why.

    I also don’t remember how to change it back to the way it was. Ha!

  23. choppernewt Says:

    What about this for an argument for blog posts up front…

    Take yesterday. We finish song, Pent posts about song, we want people to check out THAT SONG, and by having the post about HERE’S OUR NEW SONG FOR FREE DL, with a link to the mp3 on the uploader, all the people currentlly stopping at the front page have the chance to get “something for nothing” thrown right in their face immediately upon looking us up?

    I agree, it’s a problem that the front page gets all the hits and people don’t seem to go past that to get to the current news. There’s no reason the graphics, map, RN widgets, whatever cannot also live on that page.

    The link to the POSTS is there, but it’s practically invisible, and I don’t like counting on people to be interested enough to find it. They’re on our site, they went to the trouble of searching or clicking the link or whatever – let’s give them something – a song, an argument – that they may be engaged by RIGHT UP FRONT. We’re not going to get fans by convincing them of our sincerity or coolness or whatever. People will come back if they DL a song and like it, or get hooked on our (admit it) brilliant and comical comments. Oh, and the Steely Dan Fun Facts.

  24. Oh, you are part of the problem, too, my dear Chopper.

    Also, just to plague your poor minds: I have another opinion (they are infinite, really). I think we might consider expanding the stereo field of our music. I’ve been figuring out this stereo imaging plugin I got, and I think a proper use of it really improves the overal quality of the sound, massively expanding the sound to the right and left very pleasingly. In fact, I’d love eventually to get WAV mixdowns of all our tunes from you, Chops, so as to burn a hi-fi CD, but also to run through the stereo imager plugin to see if I like the overall result.

    Another thing, too: I had considered remixing Clipboard Unplugged and I recall Pent had a haunting drum part for that. Do you still have it, Sir, and if so could you upload it for me at your convenience?

  25. choppernewt Says:

    What’s up Dave! Thanks for stopping by. I tried to put Google Analytics on our page after listening to you guys talk about it, but WP won’t let me do it. Apparently because they’re already doing it themselves and won’t share.

    How dare they restrict my freedom on the blog they give us for free! Fascists!

  26. OK, those are all good reasons. I agree. Here’s the problem: if I put the posts first, I think I have to delete the “home” page. I’m not opposed to that, however. I’ll see if I can save some of the cool graphics and the map widget for the sidebar and header. It also simplifies the blog.

    I like it. Give me until this evening and it will be done.

  27. choppernewt Says:

    I think that about the time we decide the BD is “done”, I’ll go ahead and get flacs up on the uploader, and you can give that a shot.

    When we’re ready for that, I’m likely to give some of the early songs another pass to try and make the production more uniform. Not totally, you know, but I’ve settled into some things that really seem to work, and it’d be cool to apply them to stuff I was just kind of learning on. Nothing radical.

  28. I don’t care to argue because 40 hours of my week is often filled out with writing proposals for projects with data backing up my proposal.
    I don’t care to have to do that with the Lizards From Afar.

    If my “opinion” isn’t enough, then I am OK with that. We keep the site as it is.

    – – – – – –

    I say we record the music for Block Party and then call the album closed. Let Chopper master it and then consider pressing a limited number of copies…submitting to indie labels…etc.
    Start work on the next album after the holidays sometime after everyone recuperates.

    NOTE: If both would be willing to upload all the flacs for KFL, I would also consider re-re-re-re-recording the drum part and making it sound less Frankensteinish. (And bring back the toms maybe…but more like the sound/drum-voice of the first recording.)

  29. Posts need to be on the first page. Why?

    Because I’m a web designer, I’m in the band, and I didn’t realize that the blog was being updated at all. Every time I came to the site, I saw that nothing had changed, and assumed the thing was abandoned. Putting the posts first is the best way – possibly the only way – to combat that.

    I’ve done a lot of WordPress work for freelance clients. Matt, if there’s a way I can assist, let me know – set me up with an admin account or we can just talk through it at some point.

  30. Ok, ok, ok! Oy, oy oy! I already agreed with Chopper’s reasoning that we’d have the posts page first. No need to ram it home over and over, Gator. And Pent-boy: read the earlier post wherein I already agreed with Chopper’s reasons. I mean, really, I had real reasons for putting a static home page up, and I presented them to everyone when I did it, so if I am going to change it back I just wanted someone to give me a reason or two to do it. Why should I just do it because you say so? Am I some kind of slave or servant?

    And Gator, you contribute comments to the blog, so why assume the site was abandoned? Or were you joking there?

    Perhaps I’ll just give you admin rights and you can manage the site. Why not? Chops and Pent have admin rights, too. Then you can also create posts. I have no problem with that. I’m the rarest post contributor these days, in fact.

  31. And one more thing, regarding BD, we should at least have Poster Child in it, too. Poster Child and Block Party, the last two tracks for this album? Does everyone agree on that? I love Poster Child: lyrics are great, I like my guitar work there, and I left lots of room, I think, for Chopper’s great guitar work and vocals. The song rocks (or it will when it’s finished).

  32. Oh, sorry, Matt – I wasn’t trying to hammer anything home. I was running to a conference call for work and trying to get a post put in so that it didn’t seem like I was ignoring things again, that’s all – Ithink I overlooked that you had already agreed : )

    Sorry to come across as the hammer. I wasn’t joking, though – that long stretch of time when I wasn’t commenting was when I lost the posts area. I’m trying to get more involved as of now.

    Anyway, I’ve accepted the admin stuff. I’ll begin by creating posts for sure.

  33. I was trying to come across as MC Hammer…but alas my legitimacy was insufficient and I was therefore required to quit.

    – – – – – – – – –

    To Be Worked On:

    – – – – – – – – –

    Giving Us A Final Song List Of (in no particular order):
    Kung Fu Lover
    Giant Robot
    4H and Fourteen
    Just A Girl
    Stay With Me 2008
    Powder Keg
    Way Back (Mr. Peabody)
    Poster Child
    Block Party

    I officially wave any say in song order. I have no particular opinion on that.

  34. No problem, G.

    I changed the set up, but I haven’t done all the menu work. A more visual menu would be nice, but the simple text one on the sidebar was, alas, the most useful.

    12 songs is good. That’s how many there are on Life’s Rich Pageant. It’s one more than Tantric Pathways and two more than Kick the Habit. Song order will be difficult, I think, for what theme ties these songs together? I’ll have to ponder that one.

  35. That’s why I want out of it. My mind changes daily on the thought of it. If I were to suggest anything, I am positive that I would later be dissatisfied with my contribution and kick myself for ruining it.

    I will therefore let you guys pick and then kick YOU later for ruining it…

  36. choppernewt Says:

    Fuck putting SWM on there. I expect my veto will be over-ridden, but I register it nonetheless.

  37. choppernewt Says:

    On the positive tip, I’m going to assume attribution of much of the site activity over the last couple days to AGP, and once again give a big thank you to the AGP cast for the attention. Sadly, my biggest geek activity, the fortnightly D&D meeting at DeGrimes’ house, is cancelled this week as we want to watch election returns.

  38. D&D? Geek.

    Gotta have SWM. If not, you gotta record another song. Fewer than 12 songs is pathetic in this day and age.

    Well, you do have my guitar work to GFW. Record the fucker. I dig it. Maybe I’ll do a vocal demo….

  39. P.S. New header image, just because I can.

  40. Matt,
    I really F’n love the new banner image.
    That is all.

  41. choppernewt Says:

    New header image is awesome – confirmed.

  42. Kudos for the site update.
    I could only be happier if there was an animation of Gator in a pink tu tu, dancing about like a young boy in a field.

    Can we get an animation of Gator in a pink tu tu, dancing about like a young boy in a field?

  43. You think I am not watching.


    Gecko, awesome work. Love the banner and the new layout!

  44. Guys this can be a win – win with the site. 1st up I can tell you that when I first came to your site – I be\\never went past the 1st page – I thought you guys had organized a site that was “pages” only. No I did not see the link to the blog. I might not have looked hard enough.

    Next 99% of sites that are based on WP have the posts first – it is pretty much what ppl expect. Then they look for an “About Page”.

    Remember that you have the option of a sidebar – you can always place a few songs there – with a player – make it a new one each week and then trick out a widget to have a link to more if ppl are interested.

    Next up why not whack songs into posts on a regular basis. Talk about the song. Use the audio intros that you guys are doing for our show to give the listener insight into the song. Extend the intro to allow people to have an insight into you guys as musicians. Once you give that to people they feel an attachment that make them interested in you and therefore your music. Build your community and keep the content coming.

    Or keep it the way it is šŸ˜›

    There are some pretty cool tricks you can achieve with wp.com sites – I have one for my personal blog and it works. You might need to look at a hosted solution in the long run to give you the flexibility to do more but you guys can make this work if you do some thinking and tweaking.

    Anyway there is my 2 cents worth.

  45. Dave,
    I won’t speak for the other guys…but I agree with your points.
    Our struggle with the site is that we are very happy with our music being hosted on reberbnation. (It seems to hold the fidelity of the music better than other sites we have tried. Plus, it’s free….which we like.) Reverbnation and WP do not play well together. We are trying not to have bunches of different websites and applications to manage and keep track of.

    The goal, as you said, is to give people more than just music to become invested in.
    Sir Pent

  46. choppernewt Says:

    Dave, thanks for taking the time to give us those pointers, I think what you’re saying makes a lot of sense. We’re really only just getting to the point where we’re putting some focus on how the site presents us to the world, as we’re at heart a pretty insular bunch and always have been. While I think that attitude is an asset when it comes to the music we make (in that it allows us to focus on doing songs that please US, without much thought to what anyone else may think of the work), but with a website there’s a need to think about outside perception, and that’s a new thing for us.

    I’ll posit that I think we have, in Gator, sort of an untapped resource when it comes to thinking about web presence, and it’s likely time (once the next couple songs are done and we feel like the “album” is in the “can”) to shift focus to promotional thinking – starting not with the traditional, but with the opportunities that the internet model presents. I’d put forward that we not only ask Gator to expand his role with regard to that web presence, but in fact, if he’s willing, to take a lead in that sector.

  47. choppernewt Says:

    PS – Obama FTW!

  48. Obama! And congratulations to Illinois and Chicago!

    I’m happy to turn over our web management to Gator, by the way, but I never wanted to ask him because he seems to have quite a few projects and it’s not fair to force such a burden on him. I’ve granted him administrative control of this blog, however, so if he wants he can begin whatever transformations he thinks prudent.

    I’ve repeatedly requested that WP make RN a “preferred” site so that we can use RN’s tune widget, but I’ve never received anything other than a canned response. I’ve looked at other free blog services, however, and they almost universally stink. WP is the best. Our ultimate solution is to host our own independent blog where we can do whatever we want. Gator runs his own independent blog, using WP software. But, again, this all involves more work. For myself, I have two interests in this project: 1) making music and 2) creating band art (such as the header, etc.). So long as I can do that, I’m happy to surrender most of my control over the website.


    Bob Barr in 2012.

  50. choppernewt Says:

    I would think you’d have your hands full already with the comment-spamming on right-wing booby-hatcheries, Sir.

    We might be able to shove an iLike widget of some sort in place of the RN one, as I think there’s one available. I haven’t tried it yet, so I don’t know if it would have the same troubles.

    I still like direct links to the uploader for new songs, embedded right in the post. Also, we need to emphasize “free” more. It’s a big selling point, other than the fact that we’re not selling anything, y’now, by definition. We’re like socialists, which is all the vogue right now.

  51. Any widget that uses flash coding or javascript will be unusable on wordpress.com unless the site that provides it has a special relationship with wordpress.com (I asked them to form this relationship, but they have ignored me). You’ll need a music player widget that only uses html (or, I think, dhtml). I’m not sure which ones those are. It’s really too bad, as I like RN a lot.

    As for direct links, you know that is a possible problem since we have no real stability from these “free” uploaders. We could pay for a WP.com upgrade and that would allow us to upload Mp3s, but I haven’t been interested in paying anything as of yet. After all, we make nothing.

    Bob Barr? Just grow up, Pent-up-boy.

  52. Grow up
    Pent up
    Keep it up
    I’ll throw up

    What is this “fee” for the upgrade to WP?

  53. $20/year for 5 gigs, etc. Look it up.

  54. choppernewt Says:

    Oh, well, uploader or not, my guess is that somewhere I’m already paying for something that would provide a home for a few MB of LFA goodness, if we wanted to go that way.

    Hm, too bad about the widgets.

  55. I will look into that. I would be willing to pony up $20 a year if we could post our uncompressed, hi-res songs for people to download directly from a page on here.
    We could then repost all of the old-stuff on here again as well.

    (I don’t mind spending a little money on us.)

  56. choppernewt Says:

    Better res than 128K maybe. Uncompressed? That’d eat up your 5 GB pretty quicky. I suppose it ‘s possible, but that’s also a hella big DL for people to commit to. I’d be game for like a higher quality MP3 downloadable. I just don’t think people care enough about the resolution to do FLACs or something.

    Yeah, now that I think about it, $20 a year isn’t so bad.

  57. choppernewt Says:

    I like the new Steely Dan Fake Fact. It reminds me of something from John Hodgman. I’m reading his new book now. I laugh out loud, like, a lot.

  58. I guess I wasn’t thinking about that when I wrote it.
    As hi-res an MP3 as we can manage.
    …maybe a little lower res for the older stuff…

    And my next book is going to be Dave Zimmerman’s latest; Deliver Us From Me-Ville. I just haven’t had a chance to get into yet.

  59. Hodgman is damned funny–I’ve seen him on television, but haven’t read any of his work. Maybe I should.

    I just looked up Zimmerman’s book, as I realized you were talking about the A-train, right? Didn’t realize he was an author, and I find he’s a… Christian author. I always assumed Zimmerman was Jewish, too. Such a Jewish name: David Zimmerman, without even two “n”s to make it German.

    I’d say a hi-res mp3, say 256kbps, is good enough. If you want to post some songs that way, it’s fine with me–but it’s nicer to get people to download them from RN as we can track things better and that site connects us to plenty of other musicians (more or less).

    I’d rather not post all the old stuff, unless there’s some sort of remix or significant remastering that really improves the sound. Everybody who wants that stuff has it, and if anyone new asks for it we can provide it.

  60. I’m OK with not posting the old stuff, too. Up to you guys.

    I’d be reluctant to “get rid of” RN or iLike. Those both tie into myspace and Facebook, both of which generate a solid amount of interest.

    I’m just saying we post the new stuff here because…even though I have never had trouble with it, I’ve had upwards of 6 people tell me they don’t understand how to USE reverbnation.
    So we leave it and populate it. People find us that way. For others, it’s right here on the site when they want it. No fancy-schmancy widget…just listen or right-click download.

    I’m still thinking trash purevolume and myjones. Both stink and hardly anyone goes…but does it hurt to have it up?

  61. I’m pretty proud of the new Steely Dan Fake Fact. I actually did some research online before writing it! That British law actually exists!
    I am excited to see if the Gecko and Gator join in.

  62. choppernewt Says:

    Hodgman has two books now which are basically like old almanacs or “The Book Of Lists” if you remember that from the 70s and 80s, except instead of catalogs of facts, they are catalogs of stuff he has totally made up. As you might expect, it took me a while to get to the point where it stopped being just weird and started being funny.

    I haven’t gotten those tapes from Gator, I did send him my address but I assume they will arrive at some point, and we can see if there’s any point in pursuing a HOIYS remaster. The other tapes – they were sourced on cassette, it doesn’t seem like there’s a lot of fidelilty to be dragged out of them. Anyway, I’m kind of over HOIYS, even. The good stuff, we redid it so much cooler live with FF (I’m looking at you, DWDTG) that the original recording just leaves me cold.

  63. choppernewt Says:

    Can’t figure out RN? Were you riding some sort of truncated bus at the time you encountered these people?

  64. choppernewt Says:

    myjones hurts… my heart.

  65. Are you suggesting an LFA markIV revival of DWDTG channeling FF composition?

  66. I’m tellin’ ya, unless it’s absolutely point and click…some people aren’t going to get it. There is not big, red bullseye on RN that says DOWNLOAD HERE.
    People don’t get it.
    Also, am I wrong or is there NO download tracking in RN?

  67. Yes, there is, but it’s so hard to find it’s practically occult: log in, click admin tools, click “song plays” and one can see which songs have been played how many times, and how many downloads there have been. Way Back is our most popular, getting 95 plays and 10 downloads (I don’t know how many of those were us, of course–oh, wait, yes I do: click on listeners and you can see that “we” have played the song the most, possibly that was I).

  68. And speaking of Freep, do you guys have some live Freep recordings we need to digitally master?

  69. choppernewt Says:

    I think all the surviving worthwhile tapes of FF are digital – at least, there’s a fuckton of them on my Zune. None of them are release-worthy, really – all of them have at least one thing very out of whack, whether it be some instrument not present, low vocals, poor performance, extra guy playing who sucks… always something making it no good. And the “Live From the Boathouse” tape, while a glorious souvenir for those who took part, is not high enough quality for anyone else to be interested. It does, however contain a pretty darn fiery performance, if you are willing to listen through the tape hiss, and DWDTG on that tape, is, IMHO, the definitive take.

    @Metro: Really? You think we could do that song a) not live and together and b) without Gila, for whom that song was a showcase? I think not. Also, Jerry’s bass playing became an integral part of that evolved version, and I’m totally not up to that standard. I think that live recording is the one I’ll always cherish, and I’d rather let it rest. We torched the shit that night. Those people didn’t understand what they were witnessing.

  70. I’ve got most of the “usable” rehearsal stuff digitized as well as the single live show that we performed. I’m not sure if any of it worth “mastering”.
    As a reference and a snapshot in time, it’s fine.

    I also have the recorded Marion The Librarian multi-track recording Carm, Jerald and I did…did on a day Choppers was originally supposed to show up for but blew us off.

  71. I thought that YOU were suggesting that we try to capture it in the modern tradition we have established.
    No. I am in agreement that, without Carm and Jerry it’s not worth the effort. I’m also not sure that I want to re-live that. We’re doing so well moving forward that I can’t imagine looking back right now.

  72. choppernewt Says:

    I like it that FF is a live-only entity, and I also like that I have some tapes to prove it existed.

    Any recording of MTL without my feedback-drenched solo is less than.

  73. Less than for who?
    I busted my hinder recording that version of MTL!!

    Recording with Jerry was very similar to certain other people with whom I have recorded in that he was…not completely satisfied…with the drumming and the sub-par drummer.

  74. About whom are you talking, mister? I think your drumming is stellar. At least compared to your English usage.

    Alls I had to do today was job applications and a conference proposal. Guess which I didn’t finish. No, don’t. Why would you care?

    I’d like to hear the live FF tape, if you have it digital. I have a couple FF songs that Pentupboy sent me. I also have a tape hiss filter on one of my apps, but it also reduces the quality of the sound at the same time. You either put up with the hiss or put up with lower quality sound–a toss up, I suppose.

  75. Incidentally, I came up with the nugget of a really cool song while strolling in the Lower East Side today (nevermind why). It’s in crazy crazy 7/8 time and would be a pretty radical departure from what we’ve been doing. Maybe for the next album.

  76. It was this other guy that I recorded with…guy was from Canada, he had no morals.

    My guess is…you didn’t finish either? But if you did finish one, it was applications!

    If you can wait a little while, I will convert to lo-res mp3 files and forward onto you in the near future.

  77. Yeah, the applications. The paper proposal required thinking, and no thought was happening today. Today I’m a blank slate. An empty vessel.

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